In the second part of this in-depth interview, Mustafa Karasu, member of the KCK Executive Council, spoke about the responsibility of the State in moving the process forward.
The first part of the interview can be read here.
The process is being evaluated and discussed from all possible perspectives and angles. The diversity of opinions is correspondingly large. However, one point on which everyone agrees is the elaboration of the AKP government’s approach to the process. The AKP’s approach, the speeches by Erdoğan and Hakan Fidan, is negative, with hostile rhetoric being used. This is the cause for many doubts about the process. How do you assess this?
Who controls 95% of the Turkish media? The AKP and the AKP-MHP alliance. They always worked the same way. They focus on a specific issue, and all of them take the same stance on that issue, trying to create a perception and direct society. If the AKP-MHP government is sincere and truly wants to solve the issue, then the rhetoric of their entire press must change. The press needs to support this process, it needs to approach this process positively, and it needs to approach Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan correctly. But they won’t. They still call him the ‘terrorist leader’ while talking about the ‘solution process.’ No one falls for their deception. If the government is sincere in saying that it wants to bring this process to a conclusion, then the rhetoric of their media has to change. It lies in their hands since it’s them who control the media. There is no such thing as independent media.
One can have a look at what the media was like a year ago, for example. Whatever the AKP-MHP government decided, the media would make propaganda accordingly 24/7. This is one of Turkey’s most fundamental problems. It is a historical problem. The press, the AKP, the MHP, and the government have a role to play in developing the Process of Peace and Democratic Society in a positive direction and must take a positive approach.
Yes, there was war, but that lies in the past; now peace is desired. How is peace achieved? Is peace achieved by constantly fighting and accusing each other? A peaceful environment means a process of understanding each other, reaching a compromise, and coming to an agreement. Their continuation of their rhetoric of ‘terrorism’ against our Movement and against Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan is not right. The government needs to change its attitude. Don’t we understand? We understand how this government approaches things from there. We want to bring this process to a conclusion. Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan stressed that he stands behind the initiative he started. Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan wants to bring the process to a conclusion, and we fully support the process that he started, and so do our people. We support it because we know that this process is too valuable to be left to the mercy of others. It cannot be left to the mercy of the AKP or anyone else. Regardless of their approach, by struggling, with the right leadership, the right approach, and with our people supporting it everywhere, we can develop this process. Yes, it is unclear what this government will do tomorrow or the day after. We cannot know that. But our people must believe in this process and support it. It is not enough to solely express doubts. We can lead this process to success by supporting it. Of course, the state, the AKP, and the MHP will try to play games. We have to be prepared for that, too. We will respond appropriately to any attack. But today, our duty is to lead this process to success. We all need to act with this approach. It is understandable that the people develop criticism towards the AKP. And doubtlessly it is necessary to develop such criticism and expose these wrong approaches. We agree with this.
Before we move on to the topic of the commission, I would like to ask you something about the current repression against the inner-state opposition. On September 15, there will be a trial on the cancellation of the CHP congress, at a time when the appointment of trustees for elected CHP representatives is being discussed and the elected CHP representatives in Istanbul are being removed. What is the significance of this repression? How is it possible for democratic politics to develop in Turkey while the trustee policy is being maintained?
The approach of appointing trustees to municipalities and provincial administrations is undemocratic. They are also provocations against the process. In every other process in history, the leading forces have always tried to win over the opposition and the people to their side so that the process in question can be brought to a successful conclusion. What we are seeing here is the exact opposite. And that is undoubtedly wrong. When it comes to solving a century-old problem, you need the support of society. There can be no other way. In an issue that requires strong public support, attacking the opposition so much is truly provocative. They try to keep the opposition out of the process and want it to stay away. However, in his program, Özgür Özel took the correct, justified approach when he said, “They want to cut us off from this process and remove us from the commission. We will not be a tool for the government’s policy; we will not go along with this.” He took the right stance. Because the Kurdish issue, Turkey’s democratization issue, is the fundamental problem of Turkey and the opposition.
The commission gave itself the name ‘National Solidarity, Brotherhood, and Democracy Commission.’ For this commission to take steps towards democratization, of course, the CHP and opposition groups must be part of it. The government’s stance is truly unacceptable. It is provocative. Appointing trustees means opposing democracy. And they are appointing trustees to municipalities, to parties, and to companies. This actually leaves no one with any will. No institution or community has any guarantee. Trustees can be appointed every day. If this continues, they may even appoint trustees to families. We surely consider these attitudes to be wrong. The democratic forces need to take a stand against this. The opposition must not fall for this provocation and must actively participate in the process of peace and democratic society. Because this issue is, in essence, a problem of democratization. It is wrong to frame the issue as whether to trust in the AKP or not. There is a process, and we are committed to bringing it to a successful conclusion. We are committed, and the inner-state opposition must also be committed and contribute to bringing this process to a solution in the direction of democratization. We have a duty in this regard, and so do they.
The long-awaited commission has been established and has already held several meetings. How do you assess the commission’s work so far?
The current functioning of the commission is not appropriate for the process. It is not an approach that is commensurate with the process. The parliamentary commission needs to take a serious approach to Turkey’s most fundamental problem. In particular, Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan needs to be taken seriously in this regard. Until Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan is free to work, until he is able to play an active role, and until he is recognized as chief negotiator, there is nothing left for us to do as Movement. We decided to dissolve the party, set an end to the armed struggle, and burned our weapons under the leadership of our comrade Besê to demonstrate our will. This is all we can do. Beyond this, no one should expect anything from us. The commission must take these things into account. The AKP government must take this into account. Devlet Bahçeli said that the Right to Hope must be implemented. Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan must be freed. The process will only proceed like this; it will proceed with our leader, not with us. Our people have accepted the leader as the chief negotiator, and we have accepted it too. The world knows this. From the very first day, he said that he has the power, that he has the power to resolve this within the framework of politics and law. The commission and the government must take this into account.
They did not meet with Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan. Yet the issue is Turkey’s most fundamental problem. It is not our request, but they should call on Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan with great desire, excitement, and enthusiasm and listen to him. The parliamentary commission is responsible. The commission, which is responsible to answer to the people and to history, is not listening to Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan. The commission has to go to Imrali, and Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan has to go and speak in that parliament. That is what Devlet Bahçeli said.
The parliament and the government need to take the right approach; otherwise, the process won’t work out. This is stalling. We are not saying they should not listen to society, which is what they are doing by talking to delegations from various sectors of society; they should listen, but this listening should lead to a result.
I emphasize once again; there is no other actor who can resolve and advance this issue other than Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan. We have put this responsibility on his shoulders. The people have given him this task. There is nothing we can do. No one should expect anything from us. The chief negotiator is Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan. He is leading the process. With Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan’s interventions, his involvement, and his role as an actor, this process will develop and come to a conclusion. Otherwise, any other approach to Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan and the process will yield no results. It would solely be self-deception. Both the government and the commission need to take a serious approach; otherwise, the process will not progress.
The opposition representatives on the commission also need to take a serious approach. They must put pressure on the AKP. One CHP member said, “We won’t go to Imrali.” That means that you have no interest in Turkey’s problem, its most fundamental problem, and that you have no interest in Turkey’s democratization. You are irresponsible. Everyone should be a little more serious, especially the opposition. They should put pressure on the AKP. They should put pressure on it to play a role in democratization and solving the Kurdish issue. Otherwise, it will get behind in democratization and in creating a solution to the issue. These are superficial approaches and should be abandoned.
You have stated in previous interviews that if the commission focuses exclusively on the question of how disarmament can be implemented, it will not be able to fulfill its actual role. However, in his statement, commission chairman Numan Kurtulmuş emphasized disarmament as its main task and set a time frame. Can this commission fulfill its role and contribute appropriately to resolving the Kurdish issue?
We took the decision to dissolve the organization and declared that we set an end to armed struggle against Turkey. We stated that armed struggle is not the right method. If law and politics are to be on the agenda, if there is to be democratic politics, why resort to arms? In this regard, we have clearly expressed our approach and stance. Fifteen women and fifteen men, led by our comrade Besê, burned their weapons, demonstrating our will and our intentions. The dissolution of the organization has been decided on, and the armed struggle has already been stopped. In this situation, to still insist on laying down arms is to obstruct the process. We need to talk about different aspects at this point. Those things are in the past; they have been done, and we have made our stance, our intentions, and our ideological and political approach clear on that issue. Insisting on this here is blocking the process. In that sense, new approaches and new steps are needed. Their insistence is an insistence on staying behind. They are stalling the process. This means that there is no will to move the process forward. Yes, the first steps have been taken and overcome.
Disarmament, the dissolution of the PKK, and the cessation of armed struggle—there is no point in discussing these. We have already demonstrated our will in these matters. But the state has things to do. We have done what we had to do; now there are things the state must do. They are acting as if this problem has nothing to do with the state. As if the 100-year-old problem, the Kurdish issue, has nothing to do with the state; as if the existence of the PKK has nothing to do with the state. According to them, what is the role of the state? Isn’t there anything the state can do? Or let me ask it in a different way; Has democracy come to Turkey? The commission’s name is democratization. Has democracy been achieved yet? Has the Kurdish issue been resolved? No. While there is no progress on these issues, they keep saying, “Lay down your arms, come and surrender!” This trend leads to wrong discussions and wrong assessments. A new approach is needed; the state also needs to take steps. It’s as if we created this problem unilaterally, and it will end with unilateral steps. This is not the right approach; it must be abandoned.