KCK Executive Council Member Mustafa Karasu spoke to ANF about the first year of the process shaped by Abdullah Öcalan’s Peace and Democratic Society perspective, the responsibilities of the state and society, and how to struggle against forces opposed to a resolution.
In the fifth and last part of the interview, Karasu said that “capitalism is not just a form of economic exploitation; it also imposes a way of life on all of humanity. Capitalism creates its own modernity, its own way of life, through the nation state and industrialism.”
The first part of the interview can be read here, the second here, the third here and the fourth here.
The DEM party held the ‘International Peace and Democratic Society Conference’ on December 6-7, 2025. Academics, politicians, journalists, and human rights advocates from around the world held speeches, and also a message by Kurdish people’s leader, Abdullah Öcalan, was read out. Particularly the speeches by Marxist academics and scientists, that referenced Kurdish people’s leader, Abdullah Öcalan’s, reinterpretations of socialism and his views on communal society, women’s freedom, and ecology, stood out at the conference. It is clear that Kurdish people’s leader, Abdullah Öcalan, is closely followed by philosophers, academics, and theorists. What are your thoughts on this conference and the results it revealed?
The ‘International Peace and Democratic Society Conference’ held by the DEM party on December 6-7 was a conference necessitated by the process. The thoughts and the projects of Kurdish people’s leader, Abdullah Öcalan, do not only contain solutions to the problems between the Kurds and the Turkish state, they contain solutions for the Middle East and for all of humanity. Democratic society is an antidote especially to capitalism’s disintegration of the society.
Currently, the source of all problems in the world stems from capitalist modernity. Capitalism is not just a form of economic exploitation; it also imposes a way of life on all of humanity. Capitalism creates its own modernity, its own way of life, through the nation state and industrialism. We cannot say its own form of society, because the essence of this modernity is to disintegrate society and let individualism prevail. Capitalist modernity, with the three horsemen of the apocalypse, has exacerbated problems in the world and made it unlivable. That’s why, the call for liberation today is anti-capitalism. This can only be achieved by establishing the democratic society socialism. In this sense, democratic society socialism is the call for the liberation of humanity.
Marx’s approach also aimed at such a goal. Due to ideological and theoretical shortcomings, it was insufficient to overcome capitalist modernity. However, as an experience, it left a significant legacy to humanity. Kurdish people’s leader, Abdullah Öcalan, out of respect for Marx and all those who struggle for socialism, aimed to create an effective line of struggle against capitalist modernity with the correct understanding of socialism. This is invaluable for all socialists and anti-capitalists. Kurdish people’s leader, Abdullah Öcalan, undertook a historical responsibility, focused on this, and with his accumulated knowledge and consciousness created his paradigm, which is a great service to humanity.
Socialism is a very precious goal. The survival of humanity depends on it. Indeed throughout history, socialist struggle against powerful rulers and governments that were anti-social has always persisted. It is also a fact that all religions, with their society-based understanding, have opposed oppressive and exploitative forces. They expressed these attitudes through religious literature at that time. Today, defending society and socialism has become more urgent than ever in history. Accordingly, socialism is the only democratic system of life that will provide a solution to humanity’s problems. There is no other ideology or political system that will bring freedom, liberation, and democracy to humanity apart from socialism. Kurdish people’s leader, Abdullah Öcalan, demonstrates that humanity urgently needs socialism and clearly shows how it should be implemented.
Currently, socialism is an indispensable social system for humanity. However, socialists today are experiencing theoretical confusion. They are unable to put forward clear theoretical proposals that will solve humanity’s problems. By repeating what was said a hundred or a hundred and fifty years ago, they say that they are committed to socialism and that thereby they will implement it in practice. However, despite the severe problems created by capitalism, the current disorganization and ineffectiveness reveal that this approach is insufficient. Although capitalism seems to have become more refined and gained some new capacities, the severe problems it has created, its hostility towards society, are worse than they were a hundred or a hundred and fifty years ago. It has brought the society to its lowest point. In fact, capitalism has become a problem for all of humanity. Therefore, the current disorganization must be expounded by the shortcomings of ideology and theory. If it is explained solely by shortcomings in leadership and practice, or by a failure to adhere to classical theory, then this would clearly be dogmatism, and we would be unable to escape the current situation.
Thus, it is crucial that Kurdish people’s leader, Abdullah Öcalan’s, ideas are discussed through such conferences and meetings. No matter how much opposition or disregard there is, Kurdish people’s leader, Abdullah Öcalan’s, ideas will spread rapidly. Because society and humanity need such a call and project for liberation.
In connection with the previous question, while evaluating Marxism in his speech at the conference, Marxist sociologist and philosopher John Holloway said, “I came here from 11,000 kilometers away. Why? Because a light shining in the darkness of capitalism captivated me. The light of Öcalan and the Kurdish freedom movement.” In another interview, he says, “Abdullah Öcalan’s theory has made the idea of the possibility of revolution rethinkable.” Many intellectuals and Nobel laureates also made positive comments about Kurdish people’s leader, Abdullah Öcalan’s, freedom and philosophy. While this is happening on one side, on the other hand, some left-wing circles in Turkey are reacting with accusations against Kurdish people’s leader, Abdullah Öcalan’s, criticisms of Marxism. Why do these individuals and circles, who are right next to him, not see or do not want to see the light that is visible from 11,000 kilometers away, as philosopher Holloway put it?
It is clear that many socialists are excited, because the paradigm put forward by Kurdish people’s leader, Abdullah Öcalan, is regarded to be capable of overcoming the impasses in socialist theory and making socialists effective again. They are experiencing the excitement and enthusiasm of its renewed effectiveness. Because socialism is the path to liberation for humanity. There are many who strive for socialism, but they somehow fail to become a social force and be effective. While some socialists, as in South America, come to power due to the reaction against capitalism within the society, their political influence weakens later because they fail to transcend the statist mentality and power structures and move towards a democratic socialist structure. Or they cannot withstand the attacks of capitalist modernity. These are the realities leading Marxists and socialist figures with accumulated knowledge and theoretical strength to understand the line of Kurdish people’s leader, Abdullah Öcalan. They see and embrace Leader Apo’s paradigm as a path leading to socialism. Currently, Kurdish people’s leader, Abdullah Öcalan’s, ideas are being discussed in many parts of the world. Indeed, the rights and wrongs, the shortcomings can only be revealed by discussing them. Kurdish people’s leader, Abdullah Öcalan, also wants his paradigm and what he has put forward to be discussed, and that evaluations, suggestions, and criticisms in this regard be conveyed to him.
We can say that the reactional and accusatory approaches of some left-wing circles in Turkey are rooted in dogmatic approaches. The fact that the left did not acquire a culture of socialist debate in the past also plays a role in this. We were also in this environment in the 1970s. Similar approaches existed to a certain extent among us as well, but we can say this: Leader Apo was not rigid even in those years. He did not take what Marx, Engels, and Lenin said as a fixed formula; he interpreted them. He focused on how to adapt them to the reality of his own struggle. Without a doubt, Kurdish people’s leader, Abdullah Öcalan, arrived at the new paradigm by going beyond the practice of real socialism and the dogmatic aspects that existed within our own ranks.
We are not saying this about all, but the culture of debate is weak among the Turkish left. This in turn creates dogmatism. So much so that Dr. Hikmet Kıvılcımlı, who produced original ideas during the 1960s and 70s, was also subjected to all kinds of accusations.
Certainly anyone who calls themselves a ‘socialist’ can express opinions about and criticize matters related to socialism. Because everyone, every group, has a certain level of ideological and theoretical understanding. It is not about asking why there is criticism, what matters though is to find the right approach, to not judge or speak with prejudice and accusations.
Kurdish people’s leader, Abdullah Öcalan, and the PKK have a history of thought and struggle as well. They have a history of understanding and practicing socialism. Apoists and PKK members have always lived communally. Petty-bourgeois life and habits have always been a fundamental subject of criticism. They have adopted it as their main principle to not become only socialist in thought while petty-bourgeois or individualistic in life. Because their ideological stance is socialist.
Kurdish people’s leader, Abdullah Öcalan, defined life with those around him as a “commune of philosophy”. There is a commune of philosophy in Imrali. Kurdish people’s leader, Abdullah Öcalan, does not welcome those who do not belong to a commune. Now, as socialists, how sensitive to communal life are those who criticize Kurdish people’s leader, Abdullah Öcalan, and his paradigm? Do they see communal life as a primary principle? When there are such prejudiced and superficial criticisms, we are forced to ask these questions.
Kurdish people’s leader, Abdullah Öcalan, is a youth leader who, after the March 12th coup, focused on organizing the youth along revolutionary socialist lines. He served as the president of ADYÖD, representing the radical formation of the youth movement in Ankara. After March 12th, he was the first to organize the youth in Ankara’s Faculty of Political Science along revolutionary socialist lines. Also during these years, he was a communard and a socialist in his life and style. The youth leaders of that era can attest to this.
Even in the 1970s, the Turkish left could not stomach the idea that Kurds could form a socialist movement. It was not considered that Kurds had the capacity to create and fight for a socialist movement. Indeed, when the Apoist group, failing to see a possibility for joint organization and struggle, formed a separate group, this condescending approach was reflected in various ways.
The fact that a Kurdish leader is leading the socialist theory and opening a new path for socialism in the world may have created a sense of unease in some segments of the Turkish left. There’s a famous saying, “You don’t find a prophet from the same village”. Therefore, there might be a prejudice that what Kurdish people’s leader, Abdullah Öcalan’s, says could not possibly be this important and influential. This does not pertain to everyone, but it is possible that some individuals and circles might be approaching with such feelings.
We are open to all kinds of discussions about socialism with the Turkish left. As comrades, we must listen to each other and try to understand each other. That is our approach.
Lastly; we would like to ask about the connection of this process, which is at a critical and sensitive point, with the situation in Syria. Turkey’s threats against the Kurds continue. Turkish authorities are trying to impose laying down arms and disbanding the organization. That no steps forward are being taken regarding the process in Turkey is also being justified over Rojava, the SDF and the Autonomous Administration. How do you assess the Turkish state’s Syria and Rojava policy in connection with the process? How would the approach to the Kurds in Syria affect the process in Turkey?
It is known that Tayyip Erdoğan’s failure to accept the Dolmabahçe Agreement in 2015 was expounded by not being able to stomach the gains acquired by the Kurds in Rojava. ISIS was defeated and repelled in Kobanê. Such approaches emerge because Turkey does not solve its own Kurdish problem. Currently, Turkey’s negative approach to Rojava and North and East Syria is related to the lack of a solution to the Kurdish problem within Turkey.
Surely a process has begun, a conflict-free situation has emerged, and the previously harsh political environment in Turkey has softened to a certain extent. Hostility towards the PKK and the Kurds determined all domestic and foreign policies. Even the opposition in Turkey was considered to be affiliated with the PKK. Now this atmosphere has changed. However, Turkey has still not fully surpassed the past in its Rojava policy. There has been a conflict-free environment in Rojava and North and East Syria for a year. However, the threats are not left behind. SDF is being told to disarm completely. How realistic is it to say that the SDF should lay down arms when the current government with its constitution and laws does not provide any reassurance to the Kurds and the people in Northern and Eastern Syria? Can the Kurds disarm themselves, especially while the Alawites are being massacred and the Druze are being attacked? The gangs attacking the Druze have said, “Kurds are next”. Therefore, Turkey needs to be more prudent and realistic.
Rojava cannot be used as a pretext for the current process in Turkey not progressing forward. Turkey’s unfounded concern about Rojava can only disappear with a progress forward in the process. Turkey can play a role in the democratization of Syria. Because women in Rojava would not accept the current system.
Both Kurdish people’s leader, Abdullah Öcalan, and our movement are in favor of a solution within the integrity of Syria. Kurdish people’s leader, Abdullah Öcalan, is offering perspectives that are paving the way for a solution; he wants such steps to be taken that will build trust. Kurdish people’s leader, Abdullah Öcalan’s, approach in this direction was reported in the press. We think this too will soften the atmosphere there. The administration in Rojava too always wants the Turkish state to play a positive and conciliatory role. Turkey is too committed to the old policy and fully supporting Damascus. And this prevents Turkey from producing creative policies. The problem is not Turkey’s relationship with Damascus. It can utilize its leverage for a solution and stability in Syria. And this is what is expected.
We do not think that the situation in Syria will negatively affect the process in Turkey. On the contrary, this process was developed also in part to prevent Turkey from falling into a negative situation in Syria. Not only the conflict environment in Turkey, but also the conflict and tension with North and East Syria was negatively affecting Turkey’s domestic and foreign policy. We think that the process in Turkey will positively affect Syria, and that the positive things that will develop in Syria will be effective in advancing the process in Turkey. Because such an approach and development will have positive results for Turkey in every respect.