In the first part of this in-depth interview, Cemil Bayık, co-chair of the KCK Executive Council, spoke about the symbolic ceremony in which a group of guerrillas burned their weapons on 11 July, as well as the new video by Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan.
After 27 years of isolation on the prison island of Imrali, the first video message by the Kurdish people’s leader, Abdullah Öcalan, was published. What can you tell us about the content of the video, and what is its meaning? Also, what does the video trigger in you, as one of his comrades from the very beginning?
Firstly, I would like to express my respectful greetings to the Kurdish people’s leader, Abdullah Öcalan. The role he plays is historic, not only for us, for our movement, and for the Kurdish people, but generally for all humanity. The video that was published has greatly affected all of our comrades but has had an even greater impact on our people and humanity as a whole. Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan acts with such a sense of awareness and responsibility. That is why his call is of such historical significance.
Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan stated that wherever his prison writings are read, there he is. This is a decisive reality one has to realize. For us, what is essential is not whether Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan’s images or videos are published or not, but what counts to us is that the philosophy, ideas, and system he has developed are being spread. The deeper the understanding of this goes, the stronger the bond with the Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan becomes. This is what is essential for us.
But, of course, the release of the video had a correspondingly large positive effect on us, our comrades, our people, and our internationalist friends after all these years of heightened isolation. This heightened isolation is possibly unique in human history. They had sought to completely sever Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan’s ties with the movement, the people, and humanity. They expected that by continuing the isolation in this way, they would severely impact and weaken him. However, they had to realize that the isolation they imposed and the pressure they exerted did not achieve any results. On the contrary, Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan, developed a deeper philosophical and intellectual understanding during that isolation. This is a historical continuity that has been experienced many times—people in isolation take this as an opportunity to reflect and deepen their understanding. However, the isolation of Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan was much more severe than what has been witnessed ever before. He had faced it for over a quarter of a century. It is the biggest difficulty for a person to be cut off from the world and their movement and left alone for years. It is almost impossible to live like this, and not just to live like this, but to even be able to develop new ideas, but Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan has outstanding qualities in this regard; no matter what conditions he has to face, he always focuses on his goals and acts on the basis of achieving them. That is why isolating him was not only pointless but also achieved the exact opposite of what they had hoped for.
If one examines the essence of Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan’s call, one can see quite clearly what he evaluates as necessary for the Kurdish people, as necessary for the peoples of the Middle East, the peoples of Turkey, and humanity, and what he accordingly strives to achieve. As pointed out before, Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan has a historical responsibility towards humanity, the Middle East, and the Kurdish people. He is struggling to democratically solve the Kurdish question, the issues of the peoples, and the issues of humanity.
Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan comes from a broken family, from a family facing countless problems without there being any hope of solution or change. He comes from a society, the Kurdish society, that was fragmented, had lost everything, and was seemingly hopelessly condemned to total annihilation. Instead of giving in to this hopelessness, he started to evaluate the question of how to eliminate this fragmentation, how to bring people together, how to revive this society, and how to lift it up. He thereby evaluated not only the possible solution for the general society but particularly focused on a solution for the situation of the woman. Here, too, he did historical work. What he managed to achieve and the developments he created in this regard are of such a kind that very few people would have even dared to take the first step, let alone be successful on this long road. Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan lifted a society that was falling apart, scattered, and hopeless; he lifted the women of that society and managed to revive the socialist movement that had fallen apart with the collapse of real socialism that had been a source of hope for humanity. He did this while facing the most difficult conditions imposed by the international conspiracy. His latest call was based on this.
As long as the Kurdish question is not resolved democratically, the struggle will not end, and a handful of individuals and circles will always survive, profiting from the war in Kurdistan and repeatedly reigniting it. The unresolved Kurdish question will always be the reason why the Kurdish people are confronted with massacres and war. All the steps taken by Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan and the struggle he developed were based on how these people could be saved from disintegration, how they could be revived, and how they would gain hope and the strength to struggle for democracy and freedom. He achieved crucial results from this struggle. An end was set to the denial of the Kurds, and it is no longer possible for the Kurds to fall into despair again. Because Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan revived this people. With all the steps he has taken, he always wanted and wants to resolve the Kurdish question on the basis of democracy and freedom, and he wants to develop a democratic society. Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan’s new call is based on this very foundation.
As it stands, circumstances on Imrali have not changed. Although there has been talk of Kurdish leader Abdullah Öcalan’s physical freedom, and Bahçeli has made calls, he is still unable to freely receive his lawyers, his family, the DEM party delegation, let alone delegations beyond that. How do you assess this situation? Do you see it as a continuation of the isolation?
To a certain extent, there has been a softening in the isolation of Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan over the course of the past few months, but the isolation has not been lifted. The Turkish state is trying to stage it as if the isolation had been lifted, but this is not the reality. It does so because the Council of Europe gave the Turkish state until September to make changes to Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan’s conditions. That time is approaching. Accordingly, the Turkish state is under some pressure. Another factor is that Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan has taken many historic steps on his own initiative. He called for the dissolution of the PKK and the end of armed struggle, and our movement responded by fulfilling the demands of our leader. Our movement declared a unilateral ceasefire and responded positively to the leader’s call to set aside weapons as a means of struggle. All of these steps were taken unilaterally by Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan. The movement strengthened and fulfilled the requirement of these steps developed by our leader. Some groups believed that if Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan took these steps, problems and fractures would arise within the movement and among the people, and there were also some that hoped for this fragmentation and hoped that they could use it for their personal interest; however, they saw that there is a strong bond and trust between Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan and the movement, and between him and the people. Everyone saw this. They realized that there is no fragmentation and no problems within the movement and among the people. They saw that Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan’s position is not weak, but very strong. And they have also realized that this is also spreading internationally. That is why the state has been cornered and why it has to pretend that the isolation has been lifted. They want to create such an impression to save themselves. They aim to deceive everyone in this way, but Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan’s conditions have not changed. There has been some softening, that’s all. Only sometimes does a delegation go. Neither has his location changed, nor are politicians or journalists free to come and go. The Turkish state still does not allow this. Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan is still conducting his work in isolation.
Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan made several unilateral steps; he did his part, and so has the movement. Now, Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan’s conditions have to change. His location needs to change, and he needs to be able to communicate with the people, the movement, intellectuals, politicians, and academics. The bans must be lifted. Those who want to meet with Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan or interview him must be allowed to go to Imrali. The Turkish state must not create any problems or obstacles in this regard. The Imrali system is a system of isolation, and it must be abolished. This is our demand. It is not only our demand, but also the demand of the people and those who follow the process internationally. Also, internationally, it is assessed the same way; they say that Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan has taken steps and that now the Turkish state has to take steps in response and that it is not possible for Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan to play its role under the given conditions. If the Turkish state really wants to solve its problems, the way to do so is through Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan. If he is enabled to work freely, their goals too will be achieved. They themselves said it: ‘A bird needs two wings to be able to fly.’ Given the current circumstances, Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan has done everything he can. No one can ask anything more of him until change is taking place.
After Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan’s call was positively received by the movement, a group of guerrillas held a ceremony and symbolically burned their weapons. It was a grand and impressive ceremony, followed by the whole world, a historic moment. Now everyone is wondering, where are those guerrillas? Where will they go? Will they be able to go to Turkey? There are discussions that further guerrilla groups will also lay down their arms in this way. How much of this is true?
Such a ceremony was held in response to Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan’s call. Because for us, Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan’s steps are what we take as the foundation of every movement of ourselves. If Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan makes a call, the guerrillas, the movement, and its members will implement it. No one listens to what anyone else says besides Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan. Because those who join this movement join Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan. Those who are working in this movement today have sworn an oath and have taken up arms based on Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan’s goals, paradigm, and physical freedom. Therefore, no one other than Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan can demand that they lay down their arms. The guerrilla took that step in response to Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan’s call. The step taken was indeed a historic one. And it was taken at a historic place.
Also, the given statements were read at the request of Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan, like the comrades expressed themselves. Basically, they explained everything and clearly expressed the stance of the movement. They explained why they laid down their arms, what their goals are, and what they wanted to do. Finally, they burned their weapons. Why did they burn those weapons? It is a symbol in today’s world, where NATO is constantly developing and spreading new weapons. The number of existing weapons is constantly rising. It is dragging the world into armament and war. There is a major war going on in the Middle East. Major changes and transformations are taking place. Burning weapons is a response to this. Another meaning is that we do not want to fight or use weapons again. Therefore, the Turkish state needs to develop a legal basis. If it does so, we will not use weapons again.
In the culture and tradition of Kurdish history, fire represents enlightenment, innovation, and new initiatives. This was another reason for burning the weapons. Those who read the statements clearly pointed out, “We are taking a symbolic step at the request of Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan. The Turkish state, the Turkish public, and even the world must see this. We want to resolve the issue on a democratic political and legal basis. We do not want to fight. That is why we are burning our weapons and returning to our basis.” Right now, there are no conditions or laws for them to return to Turkey. If they go, they will end up in prison, face trials, and receive severe penalties. Because, according to their laws, those who carry weapons are enemies, and the punishment for this is very severe. How can our comrades go to Turkey unless the laws change and a legal basis is prepared? That is why they did not go. There is no basis for this. That is why they returned to their base. How can a person who has lived in the mountains for decades with weapons, defending herself/himself, lay down his weapons and remain in the open? There is no place for them to go in Turkey right now. They inevitably had to return to their base. If Turkey changes the conditions of Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan, removes his isolation, allows for him to work freely and communicate with everyone, develops freedom laws, and develops democratic integration laws, then a foundation will be created and we can lay down our arms. As long as this is not the case, no one can ask us to lay down our arms.
There are some discussions in the press; some say, “They will lay down their arms in Duhok,” others say, “They will lay them down in Hewlêr [Erbil].” These are empty talks. No one can pressure us in this way or create such an impression. Perhaps some want us to take such steps, but as long as the conditions I mentioned are not created, we will not send a new group.